Monday, October 15, 2012

DNA TEST AND SOLVE THE GUNDRADA DE WARREN CONTROVERSY?

The Parentage of Gundrada, Princess of England

REF; The Domesday Book [page 99 online]
Now is the time to talk DNA
It is time that the provocative statements regarding the parents of Princess Gundrada, daughter of William the conqueror and Matilda Queen of England are ended. Much erroneous and history blocking material has come from the pens and now modern keyboards of would-be historians who [for the most part] have no real idea of what they are talking about. One should note before getting into this controversy, that much was done, after the Norman era, to block claims to the rights to certain thrones and lordships in both England and France.
Ordericus Vitalis.
It has been ascertained that Ordericus Vitalis [historian c 1185ad] was of advanced years when he asserted that Gundrada was the sister of Gherbod the Fleming. Not only was this man of advanced years, he also hated the Normans and had much to say in his dislike for the conquerors. Ordericus has been discounted as a valid historian on the subject as his work has many qualified errors including his statement that Queen Matilda outlived the Conqueror and that her son-in-law had been made Earl by the conqueror and not [as he was in truth] by William Rufus.

Dugdale, Stapleton and Freeman.
These are three historians and Authors of note from the past who have all followed Ordericus' work and completely disregarded the efforts of more prominent and believable genealogists than one who made too many errors in his work whilst also disregarding charters, tomb inscriptions and etc.
So hated were the Conqueror and his wife by those who did not like defeat, that since the battle of Hastings, English historians have tried to show the Conqueror as a bastard [so what, if you go back a few years earlier, they all were] and Queen Matilda as having had affairs and even been married before she began having between nine and eleven children to William the Conqueror.
Modern day historians have become even worse, most have not read the charters and have not had the background in Latin that the old time chroniclers had. The modern day "would-be" prefers to discount Gundrada as a daughter of William the Conqueror completely even though she is mentioned as being "filiae Meae" [my daughter] by the conqueror in his charter at his manor in Norfolk and on Gundrada being married to William De Warren as "cujus filiam desponsavit". The controversy has erupted [I believe] because of title claims, hatred and other greed encouraged items down through history. Yes the Conqueror had a problem with his wish to marry Matilda, one Pope did not sanction the marriage because the two were far distant cousins [6th Generation on one side and perhaps four generations on the other side] but the next Pope allowed the marriage to go ahead. 

Modern day historians have tried to totally destroy Gundrada's birthright and for someone who was buried as a Princess Royal, who was acknowledged by Queen Matilda as being her daughter, who was acknowledged by King William the Conqueror as being his daughter on more than one occasion. Gundrada has also had her name brought into disrepute by modern day researchers with their wild and unknowing claims. Gundrada died in childbirth on the 27th of May 1085. She was buried beneath a beautiful black marble slab of stylized marble of the same type and style as her mother Matilda's was in her native Normandy. Even this did not last as the tombstone was later discovered being used as a cover for one Edward Shirley esq who was buried in a church in Sussex. The Marble slab was returned to Lewes about 1775. Yes it is time that this matter was settled and now we have the DNA science to offer up proof in history we should quickly take advantage of it before some history changer comes along and burns the evidence. 
DNA TEST GUNDRADA, WILLIAM AND MATILDA NOW!!

For those who do not know the details of Gundrada's burial, she was buried in a small lead coffin alone, her husband William de Warrene also had a like coffin which both were transferred into at sometime well after their deaths. The Warren line will be easy to follow as they were of a different line to the Conqueror and his VERY Royal wife Matilda whose line goes back to around 200 ad. The bones of Gundrada belong to the family of Matilda and William the Conqueror whilst the bones of William de Warrene belong to the family Warrene of Garenne in Normandy. Yes the Conqueror and William de Warrene were related but were about 6th cousins. There is no hope of a mix up in DNA unless the English historians continue their dislike of the Normans.


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27 comments:

  1. I would like to stay connected to this DNA testing idea for Gundred. I am also a great++++ Grand-daughter and am very interested in solving this mystery.

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    1. As yet, they have not tested the bones of Gundrada or her husband William de Warrene but if enough of the Warrens and relatives get together, it will not take long.

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    2. If a test were given, i would want to make sure they received a sample that was indeed hers. I heard her body had been in a casket with William De Warren and I would want to make sure the test wasn't tampered with.

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    3. Deanna Falchook, I a also related to Hundred, so if you know any extra information about her and William de Warren, I would be thankful to know. Thank you.

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    4. Justin, it depends on what you read and by whom, Gundrada was certainly the daughter of William the conqueror but an old English monk historian made things difficult when he stated that Gundrada was sister to Gerbod the Fleming. This of course was incorrect in fact was meant as Gundrada was the mistress to Gherbod [as monk, he served her religiously like a religious valet] I fuggest that you read the Reverend Thomas Warren;s book on the Warren Family 898-1902 [publish dates] and he admonishes the modern historiand for trying to split the Warren family beliefs and knowledge.If you wish to read a very biased modernb historian, Googla Chester Waters on said mastters.

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    5. Raymond, while what you said was interesting, I do beliave she was his daughter. Some have said that she was the daughter of Matilda of Flanders, and that William adopted her as his own. On the same time, it is also interesting that William wrote that she was his and in his will he also suggested that she was his daughter from Matilda. Whatever the case may be, it does not matter since William de Warren was a 6th cousin to William the King. In the same time, do one wants to be related to William the King? Nevertheless, dungaree was a different person. Was she his daughter? I think most certainly so. I never read the reverend's book air have I read Chester Waters's.

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  2. I would like to know more about the DNA testing for Gundred as a Great Grand-daughter+27 as well.

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    1. You speak very much like an artiste, please contact me on my emaial ray.j.warren@hotmail.com at anytime.

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    2. i'm trying to find the cousins and add them to a group... so please feel free to join this group on fb https://www.facebook.com/groups/gundrada/

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  3. So would I, but my understanding is that Genomics is only useful back 20 (or thereabouts) generations. Assuming an average of 4 generations/century, we are limited to about 500 years using that tool. That's what I have read...

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    1. Not quite correct but please contact me on ray.j.warren@hotmail.com to advance information.

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    2. Bill Bacon.... some of us have just started a FB group and welcome research and exchange there. Please feel free to join... https://www.facebook.com/groups/gundrada/

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  4. Fascinating! I've recently learned that Gundred is my 30th Great Grandmother.

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    1. You have joined a very ancientfamiily, gundrada goes back to about 200ad through her mother.

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    2. Hi Raymond Warren. I am interested in Hundred's 200ad family history as I am related to her myself through my family tree. My tree cuts short to Richard the Second, Duke of Normandy. Thank you.

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    3. Jody Barret, I a also related to Hundred, so if you know any extra information about her and William de Warren, I would be thankful to know. Thank you.

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    4. Justin, the IGI has her history and the Mormons also.

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    5. Raymond, what do you mean by IGI? International Gemological Institute? Also, what of the Mormons. What do the Mormons have to do with my ancestor, Gundred and William de Warren? Thank you.

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    6. If the IGI has her history, I would like to know about it. Thank you again.

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  5. Hi, I would like to see the DNA evidence for William de Warrene and Gundrada as being related to Willam the Conqueror, Duke of Normandy, King of England, and Matilda, as I am related to them all. My family tree goes back there, and in my tree, I am a direct descendant to Gundred and Earl William de Warren, and finally Marry Warren. If there is more evidence, I would be thankful.

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  6. Hi everyone,especially related cousins and family members, William De Warenne is also a direct great grandfather of mine, probably about the 27th to 28th. So he is an ancestor to the Hume Clan, border family of Scotland!So any new information about my great grandmother, Gundred would be most appreciated, as I am adding my ancestors to my family tree. Interestingly William Marshall, England's most famous knight is related to my family as well.
    Thanks and also I receive clairvoyant messages if anyone would like help.

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    1. Sorry forgot to say that my name is Angelas Hume.

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    2. angela join our group on FB https://www.facebook.com/groups/gundrada/

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  8. There is a project in the beginning stages for Grand daughters of Gundred. For more information or interest in participating contact though this email.
    Gundredsgrands@gmail.com

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  9. and or ask to join this group on FB https://www.facebook.com/groups/gundrada/

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  10. Fascinating! I'd be interested in the DNA results of Gundred, Williams, and Mathilda.

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